I agree with your point although I think what Jeff is alluding to is the fact that if the people know that it is ‘their’ church there may be a sense of calling and empowerment that can come about. I don’t think that Jeff is encouraging to turn it over and just run home. But the goal, in a foreign church plant, should be self sufficiency methinks.

God bless

This post/topic was on the front and cought my eye especially when I saw Danny Foote responding (Danny is a friend from my days in Ukraine, Nice to run into you here Danny!!) Your blog also kicked me over the edge to launching my own blog where my first post was on tithing! Check it out if you are intersted… I am just getting it going so it’s simple and rough. Thanks for the stimulation.

I think the terminology, percentages, legalism, and obligiatory vibe that usually surround tithing are a bummer to say the least. Most of all because it hides the real issue tithing reminds us of, which is: “whose money is it anyway?” And what is it for? If you don’t ask those questons you quickly loose a biblical, eternal perspective on money. I believe that is true, essental, beneficial personally, as well as corporately as a church.

In my experience precious few churches have a Kingdom perspective on their own finances. Thought they encourage their parishoners to have one. I am not saying that sarcasticly but gently as a question of perspective. If our own personal finances reveal the affections/treasures of our hearts, is this not also true of a church? For most churches the term building the kingdom of God and building our church are equivalent terms. At best this is myopia, but as we sadly know, it runs the spectrum to sinful exclusivity and an arrogant “I have no need of you” isolationism.

For most churches, outreach is synonymous with recruitment for my church. This is a little different objective than reaching out to the lost to see them reconciled to Christ and brought into his kingdom. Again I am not trying to be caustic, I just think the perspective on and identity in the Kingdom is missing. This perspective and identitiy has become pretty twisted in some of the new “models” of church growth and planting where the term outreach seems to have been co-opted to mean an exercise in niche marketing and branding strategy to “reach” the churches target group, subculture, or similar subset of the population/market. Reach = recruitment, and that selectively. There is not a lot of “out” in it.

As a church I think it is important to ask the question; when was the last time we did something with our money corporately not to build our church but to contribute to the building of the Church. That’s why I appreciated the post. It is a needful, if seldom considered church planting issue.

I sat on an elderboard where our pastor basicly constructed the budget to send 30% of the money outside the church to people and places that could not possibly give back, benenfit, or build our own local church. The majority went to overseas missions and this was not hyped publicized or even talked about. It was simply conviction, as well as a wise discipline of forcing himself to put his money outside and into the larger kingdom. A very practical expression of where your treasure is there your heart will be also. This conviction started at the start of the church in the twenty years of smallthings. Because of that, that perspective prevailed even as we went through an explosive growth and a multi-million dollar building program. (When we decided to build a new church for ourselves the first thing he told us, as an elderboard was that we would need to build an orphanage in India before he would even start our project. After a lifetime in church I couldn’t believe what I was hearing.) If that perspective hadn’t had been there at the start it certainly wouldn’t have had a chance to appear latter, the momentum of ministry takes off along with the needs and things that are not prioritized first won’t have the space to appear later.

It really affected me and has become a personal perspective as well. That is why i think tithing is so essential. Not just personally but corporately and why I think this is such a great topic in this forum and context of church planting.

The terminology, the percentages are not important (and are confusing/leagalistic as you both discussed. I know you said you don’t like the term “missions mindset” I agree it is over used, I like “kingdom perspective” myself… semantics as long as the heart truly there)
But the perspective of the mission of the Church, my/our place in it and the Goals of the Master are perspectives that easily get lost if not regularly maintained. Tithing is one, though certainly not the only, discipline that can help maintain that perspective. The ledger always has our attention. Lets use that for good, to help maintain our attention on what matters. Sending a cut off the top and out the door (not some kind of boomerang giving) I think helps clarify our priorities and keep a lot of things clean and clear in a church. When I see my church and myself in the context of the Kingdom it contextualizes all my subsequen financial decisions. The “Need” to spend on our local church is kept in perspective. And if something does need to be purchased/spent on our local church then this kind of perspective help connect that purchase to the larger Kingdom purpose.

If you wait until you have enough money in the budget for outreach…you won’t have either. But if true OUTreach is deliberately planted in the purpose of the church up front (by connecting our wallet to it) I think it becomes part of the character of the group and true kingdom oriented outreach will be a natural part of the perspective and therefore the life of the church.

A central attitude of Christ was to empty himself and serve others. Paul poured himself out. For me tithing is a discipline that helps me pour myself out instead of spending it on my own selfish desires. I think it is a good and practical discipline for the church as well. Maybe the “you ask and don’t receive because…” thing in James 4 applies to churches as well as it does to individuals?? Something to soberly and seriously consider in the light of all the financial coercion “tools” marketed to church planters today…whoa that’s headin off to a big place…

Anyway there is more rolling in my head on this issue than can be contianed in a comment section I am way too long already so I will have to continue some of this in my own heart/mind and Lord willing on my own blog. Thanks for the stimulation and conversation.

I wasn’t advocating neglecting the tithe, rather I was trying to say that we not be content with a tithe. The lifestyle of giving should start with a tithe but never end there.

I know that lots of churches don’t think they need to be giving to world missions (that is what I mean by “missions mindset” by the way. I don’t like the term usually and I really don’t like the term “heart for missions” but I just don’t see biblically a foundation for giving 10% of church tithe to missions. It is a great idea to get a church on the track of giving and seeing their place in taking the gospel to every nation, but only insofar as it is a starting place and not the final goal.

I would like to see churches giving way more than 10% of their budgets to world missions, but sadly most give less. Thanks for bringing up this topic because I think every church planter needs to be thinking about more than just getting a church to grow - they need to be thinking about that church’s place in God’s plan for the spreading of the gospel throughout the world.

I agree with you.

But the Bible speaks clearly of a 10th. So, yes, we should teach a life style of giving, but should we neglect the clear ‘tithe’ of Scripture?

You’d be surprised how many churches won’t even consider what I am speaking of.

I also don’t like the idea of a ‘missions mindset’. We either have Jesus’ mindset, which is always outreaching, or we have some other mindset.

Much love
D

I think the underlying concept (make giving to world missions such a priority that 10% of your budget is dedicated to it) is a great concept. The four reasons you gave were all solid reasons, but they seemed more like solid reasons to have a missions mindset than reasons to give 10% to missions.

My thinking is that we should never get stuck in thinking that if we fill a percentage then we are doing things right. 10% is a great thing but it should never be our goal.

Would we teach the church that giving 10% of our income to the church was enough? Shouldn’t we be teaching giving as a life style not as a percentage?

Giving should be part of how we live not a percentage of what we have. If we teach the church from the beginning that we are to give as a lifestyle then we are on the right track. If we use “10% to missions” as a tool for that then great, but if it is just something we do then I think we miss the point of giving and of tithing.

Joel Meyer

When you are called, you’ll know. The call never comes the same way for anyone. It’s great that people are saying it and you sense it, but in the Lord’s time, He’ll reveal it to you.

I remember that before I was called, I had many folks telling me that I would be a pastor and such. But it isn’t until God’s call is manifest that any of it had any weight.

When step out without having the clear call of the Lord, the enemy will exploit that when the going gets rough.

Joel, I’m praying for you, that His will be done in your heart.

I have everyone around me saying that and I sense that I am but I dont have a specific verse?